S&P500 10 Value Stocks Model

For last 10 years.

8 times, the portfolio sold 100% on same day and went to cash.
During 2008 to 2009 6 times.

2011 1 time.
2016 1 time.

For smart alpha model subscriber; this information on market timing is good enough.

Note: World best investment company BRK.B lost 50% in 2008 to 2009 bear market.
still it is one of the best with 20% avg annual return out of sample over 50 years period.

It does mean
You should use the information only as a starting point for doing additional independent research in order to allow you to form your own opinion regarding investments.

It will apply to both stock recommendations and market timing used in this smart alpha model.

Thanks
Kumar

Kumar - what additional research can be done, when you chose not to share any meaningful information other than screen dumps of your sim? We know the results are good, what i am trying to figure out is if it is sustainable.

IMHO, People will have a hard time consuming a product if they do not know it’s underpinning.

Regards

Please note I am not a registered adviser. I am not offering personal advice regarding the suitability of a particular investment.
If you are unsure as to the suitability of a particular investment
for your own cirumstances please contact a registered financial adviser for advice.

I am requesting subscriber not to subscribe to my smart alpha model if they are not comfortable with the information provided in my model.

IMHO,
Quant model quality is measured by out of sample performance; not the factors used or market timing or hedge used.

wait for 2 to 5 years out of sample on this model; if the subscriber don’t have any knowledge on value investing or quant system.

Thanks
Kumar

Kumar,

This is not correct. The merits of a model are based only on the factors used. Out of sample performance can validate the appropriateness of the factors. But it’s the factors that determine whether good out of sample performance is based on something real or luck.

I understand your asking for feedback. That’s good. It’s a great way to learn. But Smart Alpha is not the best context for it. If you truly want feedback from which you can learn, you will need to disclose your trading system and that’s not typically done in Smart Alpha. Be aware that many of the experienced P123 users posted models publicly and discussed them long before R2G-Smart Alpha was formed. That, and not Smart Alpha, is the way to learn. Al,l you need do is set the visibility on your models to Public – as so many before you have done,

The only thing you have disclosed is your sim results, the sort of information we removed from the formal Smart Alpha platform because it is least useful. The only feedback I can provide based on it is that your 2001-2002 and 2008 results are not credible and raise cast serious doubt on the legitimacy of the work. I’d be happy to give more and better feedback, but I’d have to see the trading system.

You commented elsewhere that BRK lost 50% in 2008. Yes . . . and Warren Buffett has always explained his strategic approach, in great detail. That’s why people were willing to stick with him even during bad times.

Thanks Marc for articulating my concern. Kumar, if the folks do not understand the philosophy behind a given model, they will usually jettison it when the model goes south, as all models will from time to time.

Just see some models by Olikea or Chipper or Judgetrade

you will see a writeups that covers enough important points, including how the ranking system performs. I would be comfortable investing in a model like that. Nobody is asking you to reveal your “secret sauce” but at least you can tell us the ingredients.

BTW, Buffett articulates his philosophy in every annual report.

This model assumption is; if value and quality first in place, momentum will follow.

Please, use the last 10 trade transaction in the model, when it bought and when it sold to find out the value, quality, inst sponsorship and liquidity factors of the stock recommendation in finviz.com’s screen.

The 10 stocks and 20 stocks model uses the same ranking system with 11 factors;
8 factors for value and quality; 3 factors for inst sponsorship and liquidity.

10 stocks returns avg 37% per annum in simulation.
(most of the time this 10 stocks are subset of the 20 stocks model).

20 stocks returns avg 31% per annum in simulation.

Thanks
Kumar

Kumar, thanks again for your input.

So, if I understand correctly, for your ranking system you are using 8 factors corresponding to the finviz valuation and financial (as a proxy for quality) and 3 factors of finviz ownership and some liquidity?
On top of that, your model is generally rounded off by some variant of the IDB market timing ?

crastogi,

80% of my factors are exposed here, using closed trades last 30 days log.
the model has avg 90 days holdings and
500K avg volume liquidity and 5 Million ADT liquidity for last 3 months,

Thanks
Kumar




Kumar,

At the start of this thread, you say you welcome feedback. That is a proper request.

It would also be proper if you are posting in order to generate interest in your model – to attract subscribers.

Both goals are fine. But it’s hard, or maybe impossible, to do both at the same time.

If you want feedback, then stop giving clues as to what you are doing. You need to open your entire trading system by setting the model to public visibility so we can see the details and give you good-quality feedback.

If you want to generate interest in your model, which is what I assume you really want since you have not completely opened it up, then it is my opinion that you have not succeeded.

A model that describes itself as being Value and Quality should rank higher than 79 and 72 under the Value and Quality style scores. That leads me to suspect that there may be things in your model that you may think of as Value and Quality but which in fact, are not. I know, for example, that many on p123, particularly those who take purely quantitative approaches, think they are doing value when they use ratios like PS, EV/EBITDA etc. based on quarterly sales or EBITDA numbers. They do it because it has “worked” in simulations designed to maximize backward returns. But neither is an acceptable example of Value or Quality because the latter needs to be based on figures that have high probabilities of being persistent – it’s hard enough top get that when using 12-month figures – using figures from just one quarter, which don’t even encompass a full annual cycle different quarters have different characteristics) is low-persistence in the extreme and is the extreme opposite of value or quality. That sort of thing is momentum. Yet your models’ momentum score is very low, the lowest of the three. Now, I have no idea what you’re doing in terms of genuine fundamental modeling.

Yet your performance is pretty good – too good. You said at one point in this thread that:

And, you checked “NO” for use of hedging.

My reaction: No way! There is no way a long model (which is the only kind permitted in Smart Alpha) could gain 38.39% in 2008 nor could such a model have gained 58.38% in 2001 and 48.87% in 2002. That’s why I asked the question I did about your use of hedge-like factors in the context of Buy rules. And now, you say you did use some sort of IBD type system. While IBD does have fundamental aspects of its work, it is also very well known for technical, and use of backward-looking technicals (since even technical folks got killed in 2008) is the only way you could have achieved the simulated 2008 performance. In other words, I even wonder if what you did was really all that consistent with what IBD does. It looks to me like plain old data mining including use of SPEPS series factors.

So putting all this together, I do not see a Value Quality model enhanced by use of IBD technical principles. All the clues I see point to heavy data mining.

I may be wrong. But it is important that you and other Smart Alpha strategists be aware of what the numbers say – which, in many cases, does not match verbal descriptions. If you want to persuade me that I am wrong, you would need to completely open up your trading system.

Well said, Marc!
It is easy to fool oneself with the myriad of options we have at our disposal here in P123.
And curve fitting is silently creeping in unwittingly.
Werner

Kumar,

how come that after just 2 1/2 month you decided to send this model to the graveyard? Doubts over curve-fitting?

If so, that would be a good thing and would indicate a thought process that looks favorably on learning and fixing – and suggests one who can eventually become a successful Smart Alpha designer.

Kumar, I hope you re-post the model with a public visibility setting and pursue further questions. If you’d rather do this sort of thing it off line, let me know.

https://www.portfolio123.com/port_summary.jsp?portid=1425378

I believe in market timing as IBD does.
I said it is similar to IBD market timing not the same.

Thanks
Kumar

You have the right to believe in timing. But if you do, you cannot fail to disclose that in Smart Alpha.

What is the link? Is that an open version of the model about which you asked?

This system uses similar to my private ranking no momentum.

  1. ema(5,0,#spEPScy))
  2. Sma(150,0,Getseries(“SPY”))

would like to know the above series are good to use.
these are the only component my systems depend on market timing.

Thanks
Kumar

That’s easy to discern.

I reran the model after disabling all non-fundamental buy and sell rules and found little change in overall performance. The version with the technical was a tiny bit better, but considering the inherent uncertainties of moving from past to future, I’d regard the differences as trivial – an not necessarily more than could have been offset (or more than offset) by other changes involving different rebalance periods, less loose buy rules, etc.

Bottom line in my opinion: If you personally like and are confident in the technical rules, use them. If you are unsure, I see nothing in the test that would persuade me either way.

my perspective 60% drawdown without market timing hard to digest even with best quality and value model.
So, I like market timing, it is widely used by AAII community as death cross.

get back into the market when any sign on EPS improvement. even after 1 week from death cross.

I will stay focus on my personal investment.

Thank you
Kumar

Unfortunately, you are still very much exposed to big drawdowns like that even with market timing. Remember, these are backward-looking tests that address one particular type of market disaster. They cannot protect you from other kinds.

The important point is that you can NEVER assume, based on a simulation, that you can be protected. This is not engineering. This is not physics. This is not medical research. Test results drawn from one group (1999-2015) do not tell us anything about what we can expect in a different group (2016 and beyond). Expecting otherwise would be like expecting an airplane that works on earth to work the same way on Jupiter. To create an airplane that can work well on both planets, one could not rely solely on earthbound test results but would also have to identify and design based on universal principles that can be expected to be work on a variety of planets. That’s why I’ve been urging people to learn and understand financial theory. Models need to be designed based on principles that transcend specific sample periods.

#spEPScy – EPS Fundamental
Getseries(“SPY”)) – Price Technical

can we say #spEPScy is belong to fundamental ?

can assume with probability (>50% of the time)
both price (technical) and eps(fundamental) are in downtrend; market health is not good even prior to 1999.

Whenever market down; most of the news says market towards 2009 bottom using price action.
As p123 user, i would like to take benefit from EPS trend.

Thanks
Kumar

Technicals are about what you observe. Fundamentals are about the reasons things move in particular ways.

Any time you’re talking about trends, you’re talking about technical analysis, even if you’re measuring the trend in SPEPSCY. Identifying a trend is the easiest thing in the world. Recognizing that a trend will stop or reverse before it happens (or not too long after it has happened) is the hardest thing in the world. Success or failure depends on how successful you are in recognizing whether a trend will persist in the future or stay the same is where you make or lose money.

If you are investing your money based on technical trends, please do not allow simulations to mislead you into thinking the process is easier than it really is. I would suggest you study up on technical analysis choosing among the many sources available. I’m not expert in this, but perhaps there are others here who can point you in the right direction.